something to consider: in Roethlisberger’s career the Steelers have been 1st in scoring defense three times, 2nd once and third once. the other two times in his career? they finished 11th and 12th and were the Steelers worst finishes in Ben’s tenure as the starting Pittsburg QB. The Famed Steel Curtain was ranked 1st only twice. Since Dick LeBeau became the Defense Coordinator the Steelers have had perhaps the most dominant 7 year period of defensive play in the Live Ball Era (1978-present). Not to mention the 08 and 10 Steelers boasted the Defensive Player of the Year. Or the Arizona Cardinals were the worst team to make a SuperBowl, including a 98.6 Defensive Passer Rating, nearly 18 points lower than the worst to make the big game. Big Ben threw for a 93.5 passer rating on the day, below even that awful diaster of a defenses average performance.

Push on toughness? Really? Pretty good article until it lost all credibility at that moment. This coming from a quarterback (Brady), who looks for a flag from the referee if he is so much as sneezed on. He also usually draws these flags as well! Look Brady is a hall of fame quarterback but is a product of a really great system design. He throws passes of seven yards on a 3 step drop. He is only great at reading coverages, but aside from that I think without Belicheck you have no Hall of Fame. You have no Superbowls. I think you probably have a lot less Superbowls if Belicheck’s cheating ways had been discovered earlier. Listen before writing a biased article let us review. Tough Guys: Brett Favre, Roethlisberger, Rivers. Pre-Madonnas: Brady, Manning, and the other Manning.

Well, lets see. Brady ditches his first child’s mother while she was carrying his son and Roethlisberger gets rough and tough with a couple of unwilling lasses – I would rate it a tie – I wouldn’t want either near my daughters.

Pre-Madonna as opposed to a Post-Madonna?

Come on, Brady is a tough guy. Played with a broken foot. He bitches way too much, I agree about that. But they do not come much tougher.

It’s not even close. Intangibles are what makes Brady great. ALL he does is read coverages? Well jackass, that’s what GREAT QB’s do. Since the only pad you’ve ever put on goes in your panties, you wouldn’t know. As for Brady complaining to the refs, THEY ALL DO IT, it’s part of every sport. Just like you bitch at the refs on the couch, they do it for real. By the way,talking about how “tough” Roethlisberger is, how tough is a guy that weighs 260 lbs and rapes a 110 lbs girl? Not too tough to me. Don’t ever defend a rapist, it makes you look stupid PERIOD.

Toughness Push? Really? If anyone touches Brady they throw a flag! Brady would not have played one snap after breaking a nose, too bad we won’t see it since the league has their own set of rules for Manning and Brady.

The Comment I hear all the time is that Brady would win more if he had the defense of the Steelers. He would not last a quarter with the offense of line the Steelers have had the past few years.

Oh and the MVP’s that he has should go to Vinatieri he won the two games.

The plain truth is that QB greatness is dependent on pass blocking and open receivers. With those ingredients, any QB good enough to make the NFL will be a Hall of Fame candidate. Brady is immobile and will be a Pats $$$ albatross just like Beldsoe!

@Jim…really and how do you know he wouldn’t ? News flash Jim….he played with a fracture in his foot all season dumbass.He’s never taken himself out of a game in 10 seasons.Played almost a full season with a broken rib.Get your facts down.Rothlesberger is scum plain and simple. And to the idiot who thinks the women Big Ben “gets rough and tough with a couple of unwilling lasses – I would rate it a tie” Your a moron. It’s not illegal in any way to father a child idiot.

Hey Don, You cannot post “your a moron”. That makes yourself the moron. It is you are, or, you’re a moron. I love how dumb “arse” posters call people morons, yet they are the moron with their ten year old english capabilities.

Ha typical educated New England Fan that starts calling people names when he loses an argument. If I remember right Ben had a broken foot and a broken nose in the same game and he made it to the Super Bowl. Tom choked in 07, and last year in the playoffs he stunk up the joint and then this year they lost to SEXY REXY!

I love it boy wonder has a boo boo.

Talk about no class

I think your article is mostly fair, but I think you leave out some important points, especially in that it largely only consider stats:
1. You mention Big Ben doesn’t have a season in the Top 30 of QB performances. His rookie season he won his first 13 starts in a row and a playoff game. As a rookie with a 98.1 QB rating and a playoff win, I would put that in the top 30 QB performances of all time.
2. Whether you think SpyGate impacted the game or not, you need to at least mention it in your comparison. The Pats won those 3 super bowls by 3 points each. Did it make a difference? I think so. The Steelers also lost that playoff game Ben’s rookie season to the Pats. You can’t just ignore that.
3. Rushing yards aren’t considered in QB rating but are important. You don’t even take them into account.
4. Offensive lines – Brady has had a great offensive line during his tenure. Ben, not so much. If there was a stat for evading unblocked rushers, Ben would lead the league every year, and not just because he holds the ball sometimes.
5. 4th Quarter/OT comeback wins. I believe that Ben is better than Brady in this category and, if not, he has 4 years to catch him. Also, for those who say he is a “game manager”, then how can he have so many comeback wins? You can’t have it both ways. Either he is just a game manager or he is a great quarterback who leads his team to all these comeback wins…like in the Super Bowl.
6. Toughness…your comparison is a joke…I’m not even going to address it.

I’m not even saying Ben is better than Brady. They both have very different styles. But if Ben wins 3 Super Bowls without the cloud of SpyGate, you really start having to ask the question which style is better and leads to more wins and consider who is the better QB based on that assessment…not just QB rating and passing stats. After all, Matt Schaub is best QB in the league according to your assessment (tongue in cheek).

Hey ‘whatever’ (& the name fits, what with being the favorite word of teenage girls everywhere)…you belong in the ranks with the rest of the haters and the hundred excuses why yours is so much worse than ours: TB wouldn’t be a good QB ‘if it wasn’t for BB’; ‘if he wasn’t so good at reading coverages’; ‘if he just didn’t have both of his legs’; ‘if he wasn’t so good at his craft’. Ya really oughtta read it before you hit ‘submit’. Or at least keep changing nicknames; cuz that one’s gonna be hard to take serious now. The best part is: it doesn’t matter what team you’re obviously afraid to claim as yours, because whoever they are we can safely say “Our QB is Better”! What he just accomplished with a team full of rookies, player-turnovers, and supposed rejects proves that. And it’ll only get better.

Hey Will-ma…you would rate it a tie, brainiac? One QB is dodging rape charges and made last thursdays paper for having been bagged by the NFL for lying. The other one is making good on his ex-girfriends pregnancy, which yes, I would certainly hold up to my kids as doing the right thing and taking responsibility for your actions. Would you prefer the Cromartie approach?

Please accept my sincere gratitude that you didn’t enter the legal profession. But in the extremely unfortunate event that you did, I feel very bad for your daughters or anyone else’s if you’re part of any case involving them and Ben.

I think it’s time for the Pats to begin a succession plan. Brady has had an amazing career no doubt. But after watching him come unraveled against the Jets was enough. In contrast even with a terrible passer rating against the Ravens – Big Ben’s mobility ultimately lead to their win. In the end it’s all about the W’s not stats

It never ceases to amaze me how many insecure Steeler fans feel they need to seek out any and every article on Roethlisberger or the Steelers, and then try to defend their team, prop up Roethlisberger, and put down anybody (especially Brady or the Patriots) that is being compared to them. It’s so predictable it is pathetic.

To find a need to read and comment on any of these articles at sites such as this one that have zero interest to the teams that you follow, that is a sign of an unhealthy paranoid insecurity.

Scott…
1. These performances are ranked by statisticians – not your personal opinion.
2. Spygate did not throw the ball for Brady; bring something new to the table. However, while I’m on that, it has been covered til we were blue in the face, and there is no proof that Belichick ever got any use from those tapes. Mangini was a rat who knew this type of thing was done everwhere, but he needed to do something to one-up his old boss. Talk about a loser…
3. Rushing yards aren’t considered because the running backs are supposed to be doing that.
4. Offensive line…if Ben didn’t hold the ball forever, then his O line would be able to cover him; this is a skewed stat due to his choice of performance style. And, his defense is far better, but you don’t mention that while criticizing what this writer omitted.
5. 4th quarter comebacks – do you ever read stats, or is your opinion all you care about?
6. Toughness? It’s really tough to rape a girl in a public bathroom, huh? Playing with a broken nose doesn’t excuse living with a broken conscience.
Your opinions try to hide behind numbered comparisons that cannot be backed up by fact. The day that I start crediting rapists, well, I guess that just speaks to the society we live in I guess. You defend a rapist? What does that say about your personal stats? Pathetic.

Huh? That’s sarcasm, right, Rin-tin-tin? Cuz with fans like you, who needs enemies. Or you’re a hater-in-disguise?? Maybe just brain-damaged. Wish I’d known you when you un-loaded all that “worthless” microsoft stock back then too. Brady just had a phenomenal year (as in, record-setting) with rookies, guys recovering from surgery, and a broken foot. That miserable final game just pointed out our inexperience and the one weak position (pass-rush); as playoff games tend to do.
But you’re a clever boy planting that seed of doubt. I fear that NEP Nation will now crumble, and your team will have a chance, and the rivers will run with chocolate.

Ben has proved he is a great QB. When the presure is on he always delivers. Tom is top 3 QB ALLTIME,his numbers speak for themselves.they are diffiernt QBS,BEN can run TOM cant.Tom is a better passer and descision maker on and of the field.Ben needs atheltic WR for his style of play,to doesnt.Bottom line is for 1 game .with a good team give me Tom due to his descsion making and his will to prepare and prove he is not a 6th round pick…..alltime postseason QB 1.MONTANA 2.STARR 3.BRADY 4.AIKMAN 5.K.WARNER <yes look at his stats 68%comp.2-1td,int ratio 6.BIG BEN.

@Jim
Viniteri wouldn’t have needed to make the game wining field goal if he hadn’t of missed the first two attempts…
-funny how some people forget that part.

No. Next question.

The quantitative numbers are a little skewed because Brady was drafted 4 years before Roethlisberger. Head to head stats are absurd because the QBs don’t really face each other or the same defense for that matter. When Ben R bested the Steelers two years ago, the Pats were without Brady, when the Pats beat the Steelers this year, the Steeles were without Aaron Smith, Heinz Ward and B. Keisel. Each team’s fans can come up with their own reason why the matchup didn’t go well for each team. Everyone wants to mention BRs terrible SB vs the Seahawks, but neglects to mention that he was playing with a broken bone in the thumb on his throwing hand. Offensive philosophy also must be considered when looking at the passing numbers.

The plain numbers are simple. These two QBs are very close in ability and numbers. In their post season careers, Brady’s passer rating is 85.7 Roethlisberger’s….85.39. What about completion percentage? Brady….622 and BR….612. Yards per attempt? Brady 6.5….BR…7.9.

I also have to point out to one commenter who complained about come from behind wins. No QB has more come form behind wins than Ben Roethlisberger since he came into the league.

Roethlisberger is an elite QB. Brady is secure in his legacy, Pats fans need to stop being so paranoid.

It’s not paranoia so much as annoyance at the danged mosquito buzzin around our head, trying to match stats with our elite QB.

And you said it yourself in your first para…everyone can come up with their own reasons…just like anyone can pick the stats they want (like, your “plain numbers”), to compare the two QB’s. The ONLY reason this is even a discussion is that at this moment Tom is sitting and Ben is playing. Had it been the other way around, or even had they been gearing up for a head-to-head showdown, the “best QB” nod would be going to TB hands-down. And anyone who knows a shuttlecock from a jockstrap would rather have Tom at the helm.

I don’t see how Brady is relevant during any Super Bowl questions lately. Saying Brady is the best quarterback is so useless right now. Who cares and why does it matter? The Pats fans have to be relevant, well you are not. There have been 5 teams to win titles since you last won including a team that banished the Pats in the greatest Super Bowl upset ever in 2007.

We’re not relevant, Tiny…and here you are devoting your time to us? On your lunch break? Sooo…you would be, um, less-than-relevant?

Try this…I just got to watch Tom Brady and the New England Patriots play football, almost every weekend for several months.

Watching the records get broken, delighting in the unexpected talent of the rookies, rolling over the NFL, all the while not knowing what would come next, realizing that Brady will be very good for a long time to come…it’s a tragedy you can’t know this. I’d feel sorry for you if I thought you were relevant.

Hey Whatever you moron, it’s Prima Donna. If you knew it’s meaning you would realize you’re wrong. Prima donnas are vain, undisciplined don’t work well in a team environment. See T.O. Dumbass

dont wanna get personal like others on the page, but brady is a great qb and is a first ballot hall of famer, ben is a great qb and is destined for the hall of fame especially if he wins sunday…as far as the personal issues that they both have been thru, its just that, PERSONAL!!!!…and we have no buisness judging either one of them, let them deal with their lives…

Didn’t we hear the same thing about Manning before last year’s loss? No to worry..Tom’s the best…ever.

mcnab … So what? you watch Brady and rookies break records. Here is a joke I just thought of. Ben Roethlisberger is outside polishing off his latest Supr Bowl trophy when Tom Brady comes outside…Ben sees him and says “Hey Tom, nice passer rating you got there! Man, you are some kind of drop-back, pocket passer!

and actually when was the last sb brady won??..the guy that wrote the article only focuses on bradys stats but his playoff record is far from excellent..lets review, in 05-06 they lost in the divisionals to denver, in 06-07 they lost to the giants in the sb, in 08-09 the lost to the ravens and this year to the jets..moral of the story is this..dont do backflips in the regular season but land on your face in the playoffs…the last 5 years have been kinda slow for brady..

McNab, aka, Brady apologist. Football is just a game. What is truly frightening is how many young me take the wrong turn in road because callus, selfish sperm donors leave the mothers to raise them alone. Money is not the most important thing a dad gives his child. So while fawn at the feet of the absent father, I will try instead to teach my grandsons the value of honor and responsibility. So, as I noted earlier, it is a tie – neither has much character. Yes, both are good football players. So was OJ.

tony/deepee: Ok ok my stat-happy friends (and good job hiding your true colors the first time around there, pee-pee); I’ll play your numbers game: If our Patriots can repeat, meaning if they can put up another decade and manage three SB’s, while making the playoffs most of the other years, I will, once again, be a very happy camper; even if the 3 SB’s come in the first half of the decade. And my optimism is not unfounded (though tony’s may be, with ben polishing a trophy): most dynasties fizzle after a great run. But instead, we’re gearin back up…look what we got: 1) A QB, with more experience under his belt, who just put together what some might call his best performance considering he broke yet more records and did it with rookies, rejects from other teams, guys recovering from surgery, and a broken foot. 2) Rookies who far outperformed expectations and young players who’ve stepped into thier potential 3) Good draft picks, thus a great chance to fix our only weak position – pass rusher. Wide-out would be nice, but not necessary.

You say “so what” to breaking records, dude? Try this on: for many years to come, every single time a player or a team even approaches any of the scores of (significant) records set by the NEP, all we will hear is who holds the record and how they got it. Time and time again. And it’s gonna be a rush, every time. THAT’s what I like about setting records. And since TB/BB already have 3 SB’s, with more likely to come (see prev para), we ain’t done yet.

If 3 SB’s is “far from excellent”, other dude…how exactly do you refer to the rest of the league? And conduct off the field is an important part of the package, contrary to your 1st blithering installment, especially in pro sports; but that’s a topic for later.

Maybe it’s because I suffered as a Pats fan for three decades, before having them called “The Dynasty” for the past 10 years; but if you can’t appreciate what we’ve had then you’re either an ingrate or a jealous wanna-be.

Keep hating, girls. I’ll keep enjoyin the ride.

mcnab…I admire your fandome, I do…but the Pats are not winning any more Super Bowls…your owner has squandered Brady’s chances with guys like Wes Welker and Green-Ellis and Woodhead…Yes you have young talent but you can only play 11 on the field at a time so it does not matter how many draft picks you have…you need dynamic players, guys who can make plays down the field, who can make plays without Brady…as it is Brady is your best offensive player and he does not come across the line of scrimmage…you cannot win without playmakers and the guys you have, including the rookie tight-ends do not scare any defensive coordinators in the league…The Steelers have been a good team and are now on the verge of being the best franchise ever…Instead of asking who is better, TB/BR, you should demand this team surround Brady with stars on the offense instead of limitied players like you have now…it is great during the regular season, but when you play the best defenses in the playoffs your weakness will be exposed.

Preaching to the choir, Will. And then you’re contradicting your own sermon. It’s all about responsibility – fathers who skip out are cowards who should be held accountable. Yes Tom screwed up, in one of the worst ways, in my opinion. But I don’t even need to know you to know that if you claim you don’t make mistakes, then you are a liar. And that applies to me also. But it’s exactly because none of us is perfect that it’s become one of my favorite tools to judge character: how does a man handle his mistakes? Brady’s time with his ex was consensual & the result was not intentional. He didn’t deny, he didn’t try to weasel out.

But the part that should concern the parents of those grandsons is – there is something wrong with you if you’re claiming that it’s valid to compare a moral mistake to a conscious, illegal, heinous act; one that was certainly NOT a mistake but was in fact the kind of intentional act that would have driven some of us to make sure Ben never suited up again, had it been one of our relatives. Do you believe Ben UNintentionally fell into that bathroom with the young drunk lady? Do you believe he UNintentionally lied to the NFL? Do you believe he should be the example to those grandsons you mention? And OJ?? Whatthehell is wrong with you? Do you honestly think you should equate rape and murder (Ben and OJ, respectively)to procreation without marriage? Or would you rather have the guy who owns up and attempts to do the RIGHT thing be the example…Google Tom Brady and look through the scores of pics that come up – see the ones with him and the child; before you pass judgement so quickly and run your yap.
And stay away from my grandkids.

Wow, people in the comments section are actually saying Roethlisberger’s multiple rapes and Brady’s consensual behavior with his girlfriend are equivalent.

As for football, the stats don’t lie. And when Brady elevated his game to the point of being the MVP or deserved it in 3 Super Bowls, Roeth merely raised his in one and lowered his in another.

There needs to be forgiveness for Roeth, and it is hard because he wasn’t able to admit his crimes, but he has shown contrition and after all, this is about football.

So Will, let me get this straight. I’m dating a woman and we break up. A month later, she tells me she’s pregnant. So, I’m now supposed to marry her? They BROKE up. He has supported his son since he was born. He spends alot of time in the offseason with him. Just because a woman is pregnant, does not mean it fixes their problems. Would it be okay with you if they got married and divorced a few years later? You’re an idiot. I wouldn’t WANT to be married to someone if we didn’t love each other. You compare a rapist to Tom Brady. You are jealous of him pure and simple.

Justthefacts and Scott …..

Passer “rating” doesn’t have a whole lot of credibility in the sabr world these days but if you are going to cite it, you might as well consider a couple of things:

1) Roughly a third of Brady’s 4700 passing attempts happened before the Polian rules went into effect in 2004 (BR’s rookie season) and take a look at what happened to ratings league-wide that year. I’ll save you the trouble … they took off. That means that for a third of Brady’s career, he was lugging extra weight. If you are going to use a tool that is biased toward passing completion, it should be noted that it was tougher to complete a pass in the years before BR was playing.

2) The biggest problem with passer rating is it doesn’t figure in sacks. So as far as rating goes, it is far better to hold the ball/scramble and take a ten yard loss then it is to throw the ball away and take the incompletion. Quite clearly, there is a bias in the equation toward Ben’s style of play because he gets rewarded for trying to keep plays alive and completing passes down field. There is no shame in this but it is “win win” for Ben statistically becasue a sack doesnt hurt his rating and the big play downfield is all gravy. When you make adjustments for this – as plenty of propeller heads do – the numbers take on a pretty strong Brady bias. Now BR’s success running the ball helps mitigate Brady’s advantage in “adjusted” passer rating, but it still leaves a sizable hole.

I agree with Minihane that the “headline” numbers aren’t decidedly in Brady’s favor but if you look just a bit under the surface, the case gets a little more compelling for number 12.

Great write up and pretty fair comparison. With a win (gotta do that first) Ben gets in the conversation with the top guys. Looking at overall career obviously Tahmmy is currently better, but he’s also got 4 extra years playing.

Ben has plenty of time to have some great statistical years. In fact if you extrapolate what he had in 12 games to a full season this year he would have 4000 yards and 22 TDs.

Minihane and the New England media keeps moving the yardstick…when Brady was dominating the titles it was all about titles, now Ben is and its about who is the better QB…who cares if one QB is better if they are not playing in the final game of the year…I will take Ben over Brady at this point because he wins titles…In ’07 the Pats title hopes ended with incomplete passes from Brady…the same for this year and the interceptions last year…Give me a team where a guy can win with his arm, remember the Santonio Holmes catch, or with his feet and extending a play…If you listened on the radio without seeing the games you could think the Pats were playing flag football with all the freaking checkdown and slant passes and dink and doinkers…Ben is a football player, he will run a guy down if they interecpet the ball, remember the play against the Colts where he made the game saving tackle after the Bettis fumble?…Brady would not do that and the writers here would say, ‘We don’t need him to tackle”…well the game might be on the line so do what needs to be done…I don’t think any quarterback is better than Bradshaw but Montana…Four Super Bowls beat 1,2,or 3 anyday…Greatness is about results and not some beauty contest!

I agree with Tony .. the yardsticks in these discussions are constantly being moved. But Tony, you say it is all about results. If that is the case, how do you explain away the 71 basis point lead Brady has in regular season winning percentage? (77.6% to 70.5%). That is a win per season which is pretty significant over a 16-game sample. And the Steelers sure could have used one of those wins in 2009.

Uhhh, yeah Tony…weak offense. I gotta give you credit for the most inventive story; considering that from day one our offense was hyped, and we steamrolled right through the season. Are you TRYIN to be funny?? There’s something wrong with you. Here’s just the ones I can remember, and I’m sure there are plenty more:

Of all 32 teams the Patriots were: Highest Quarterback rating, most total points at 518 (next closest was 441), highest points per game avg, MOST passing touchdowns, 1st place total TD’s, 2d place (by 1) RUSHING (yes rushing) touchdowns; 1st place for LEAST fumbles (rushing AND receiving)

TOP 10 in rushing yards total, rushing yards per game, total yards, fewest sacks, first downs, receiving yardage total

That’s just to name a few. Yeah, we better scrap the whole offense. You trying to convince us our new TE’s are no good so you can get them? Not happenin’. You trying to kick that meth addiction, hopefully? Def coordinators aren’t worried? I suspect they would disagree. What sport are you talking about? Are you sure you have the right football…this one has the oblong ball, not the round one.

But thanks for the fan complement, I think. And have another one.

McNab the Pats offense is creative and it is difficult to game plan for during the course of a regular season…you have to adjust your defense to address what the Pats are doing which is different from most teams…however, once teams settle down to play the Pats in the playoffs and the Pats are their sole focus, the Pats players are just ordinary and easy to keep in check…
As an example, remember the undefeated season when the Pats were blowing teams out? Well teams reached a point where they refused to be blown out by the Pats, so the Eagles, Giants, Ravens and Jets played this juggernaut almost even until the last minute, the Ravens were a dumb timeout away from upsetting them…Point being, they game planned for the Pats specifically for the Pats and their juggernaut offense…Do you honestly believe that Welker, and Branch are any match for Revis and Cromartie? Do you honestly believe a brilliant defensive mind like Ryan cannot stop guys like Woodhead and Green-Ellis? Your offense was fools gold all-season…You won alot of games but aside from the Steelers victory the others were unimpressive, yu beat the Jets on a cold night, the Bears in a blizzard, the Ravens in a late rally, the Colts when Payton was struggling and threw a bad interception, the Packers on a offensive lineman kick return to the 7 yard line and an INT for a touchdown and with a backup QB…You overwhelmed the Dolphins with a special teams return for a TD and two defensive TDs…so despite the stats, I say the Pats offense was fool’s gold all season.

Don…you are right, the Steelere should have made the playoffs last year and there is no excuse for a team with all of its stars to perform so poorly.

“Is Ben Roethlisberger as good as Tom Brady?”

Do I really have to even answer this?

..to lazy to say more than ‘No’

Well Tony … if QB’s get the lionized for winning super Bowls then they sure get the blame for missing post-seasons. And in that vein, last season’s failure falls on BR.

As for nitpicking each Patriot win, the same can be done to Pitt. Polamalu doesn’t make a strip and they lose the Balt game. Stevie Johnson catches a bunny and they lose the Buffalo game. Retarded no-call on a clear BR fumble and Fish recovery in the Maimi game and that could go the other way. Just two of these three plays go the other way and the Steelers could have missed the playoffs …… AGAIN. And in that case, this article would have never been penned. What if, what if, what if, ….. that game is all too easy to play the other way.

It is estimated via research studies that “fathers” like Tom cost the American taxpayers 800 million smackers annually. He may pay support and parade for the press, but he is sending a message to your sons that it is OK to skip out on the responsibility of fatherhood. You can choose to attack me for worrying about our country more than a football game, but all you have to do is visit a prison and see all the young black men who have been tossed away by their fathers to see what is wrong with your adoration of these physically gifted men. As for making mistakes, I certainly have done well at that score. I do try to correct them. I know that as humans we identify with these people in part to offset our own lack of greatness. But don’t let it consume you…

I am a steeler fan and I totally agree that Brady is a better overall QB than Ben right now, but the fact that we have started to compare those mean Ben is getting there and might well pass Brady in next 4 years especially if Brady does not win playoff games.

Everybody underestimates Ben’s 05 playoff success based on subpar Superbowl performance.But leading to that game, he had 7 TD games in 3 playoff games with wins at Indy and at Denver (where Brady lost the week before). Ben was especially brutal at denver with total 3 TDs and almost 75 % completions.

If Ben had a great Steeeler’s Defense to his help, Brady has a great O line , clutch kicker, good defense led by Bruschi/Harrison/Seymour and perhaps best coach ever to coach..same way Manning had 2 possible HOF receivers and a great TE. It doesn’t matter what help you got, there comes a point where a QB has to make a play at clutch times and reality is Ben is as good as Brady in that aspect.

Wow Tony. Just…wow. Just put my 4-month old daughter to bed, and the conversation made more sense. I’m very impressed at your civility and I hope you don’t spill the tea off that coaster beside you or drop crumbs from your crumpet. I’ll just enjoy my American beer (Sam, of course) and marvel at how your good manners aren’t a substitute for common sense. This is like trying to explain to Will that Rape and murder are in fact worse than fathering a child. Pay attention: water is wet, gravity makes you fall, and those numbers and stats I just quoted don’t lie. That was a very long list of reasons why all those other teams ALMOST won but didn’t…you really don’t see how foolish it makes you sound? Your a hater Tony; trying to sound otherwise. It is as much luck and coincidence that Ben is in the SB as it is that TB is not. In Ben’s case it is much more his team that got them there; if the Pats had made it, it would have been in much larger part because of Tom. That’s obvious to anyone who studies the game, and anyone who would take Ben over Brady is a fool without the gold.

Wow will.. Just wow. Step off the soap box please.

Of all the yap
All the stats

Of all the whatever only ONE set of numbers matters.
The one action a QB can take that will have a more profound effect on the outcome of a game…any game is reflected in the following statistic.

Nothing a quarterback can do has more EFFECT on a game result that this one little number.

Ben has attempted 2800 passes with 86 interceptions…Ben’s # is 32.5
Brady?…………4710 attempts with 103 picks……..Tom’s # is 45.7

What we are saying here is that Ben basically throws 3 pix per hundred tries and Tom throws 2. Who you want on your team…duh? Do you honestly need to think about this one?

(Plus, Brady doesn’t need a body guard and a $116 worth of cocktails to get a good looking woman to have sex with him now does he?)

Amen, t-stor. But I fear we are wasting our breath on most of these mouth-breathers trying to sound moral and sophisticated.

Also – well said, Sidd; though I disagree and I believe time will prove you wrong.

Most of your beside the point arguments are dumb stfu put Brady behind steelers o line see what happens give Ben def assignments great o line and best coach in 30 years… Btw Brady hasn’t won a playoff game in how long seahawks have more than em in last 3 years

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“… in this case while other incidents in this series have not been reviewed.”
Well I don’t know, maybe because it was a match penalty? lol The league has to review match penalties.

Pussies like Julien have excuses. Real men welcome honest accountability. Now we know what the Hippocrite is really made of. You know Julien, there is a moment when you are at the all-you-can-eat buffet, that you should just push away from the table and ‘Just Say No’. Cheaters are still losers even if they win.

Funny, he wasn’t charged for rape so I guess it wasn’t rape. All he did was pork some little skank in the bathroom of a club, happens all the time. For one, she’s wasn’t 21, but that didn’t stop her from lying her way in. And I guess out of all the men in that club, she JUST HAPPENED to go for the millionaire celebrity althlete, who was in the VIP area so she had to con her way into there also. She got what she wanted and she deserved it. It took alot of lying from her to even put herself in that position, so acting as if she’s a victim is absurd. How many people do you know who would end up in that scenerio? Not many if any at all, because even when drinking, most people have a sense of self respect and integrity. This tramp wanted to be wanted, and she let nothing stand in her way. Big Ben is a man, a single man who hooked up at a club with woman who wanted him. Last I checked that wasn’t illegal, that was normal. Just because you can’t talk to woman anymore doesn’t mean you can pass judgement on somebody who still can.

With all the talk about Brady being “the greatest of all time*”, I started to think about the last time I saw Brady put together a last minute touchdown drive to win a big game. I have to admit, I’m having trouble remembering anything recent. Ben had his Super bowl TD winning drive a few years back, but as far as Brady, I can only remember situations where he had the opportunity but failed. AFC championship vs Colts in Indy (interception), and TWO opportunities in the Super Bowl vs NYG and failed to reach mid field against a team that was supposed to be inferior. No doubt he is one of the greatest of all time, but he’s starting to become a Northeast sports media idol than a clutch QB. Ben has far superior mobilty in the pocket that allows plays to be extended when pass protection breaks down. Brady, on the other hand, becomes extremely mediocre, when under pressure. Paul Revere’s statue in the North End moves better than Tom Brady.

Isn’t it incredible how it’s NEVER Brady or Belichick’s fault when they lose, but they are the only ones responsible when they win? Here’s a lesson in common sense, ’cause I think you need it: If the coaching staff of the Pats did not gain anything by illegally taping the other teams practices, then why would they do it? And after they were specifically warned not to continue, they DID continue to tape their opponents illegally. My point is, with all of the game preparation during the week, practices, breaking down film, team meetings, travel, why would you waste time doing something illegal and continue to do this if you gained nothing in the process? A common sense question. And why would you put your teams most significant historical achievements under suspicion, your very OWN coaching legacy under suspicion, and destroying the teams integrity forever, if nothing was gained from this? Furthermore, If you are willing to risk everything, what good is any of this if you cannot implement this into your game plan, which means implimenting this information to your QB and O-line, at the very least. Seems like alot to put on the line for nothing, doesn’t it? By the way, Josh McDaniel(Broncos coach), who was on the Pats staff during Spygate, had to admit one of his coaches illegally taped the 1-6 49ers in London, just recently, and was since fired by the Denver Broncos. This would make him a repeat offender. Take a wild guess where he’s coaching now? Hired by the Patriots organization in 2011. A little too much reality for you? Look up anything I said, it’s all out there, even if ESPN or the other sports writers in the northeast sweep it under the rug. I’m sure you have alot to digest before you make new excuses for “the greatest coach & QB ever”.  Funny how they haven’t been able to duplicate those accomplishments since, almost as if it were the world’s most incredible coincidence.  But I’m just hating, huh?  Yeah, sure.